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TheVentureCity is headquartered in Miami and Madrid and invests in EMEA, the US, and Latin America
Venture capital used to be a cottage industry, with very few investing in tomorrow's products and services. Oh, how times have changed! While there are more startups than ever, there's also more money chasing them. In this series, we look at the new (or relatively new) VCs in the early stages: seed and Series A.
But just who are these funds and venture capitalists that run them? What kinds of investments do they like making, and how do they see themselves in the VC landscape?
We're highlighting key members of the community to find out.
Francesca de Quesada Covey is a Partner at TheVentureCity.
Covey is an early stage tech investor and seasoned business development leader. She leads the pre-seed and seed vehicle. She also serves as Tech and Innovation Advisor to the Mayor of Miami-Dade County.
She worked at Meta building BD teams supporting 0 to 1 products including Meta's crypto project Novi/Diem, SMB payments, and connectivity efforts for Internet.org. Her last role was working out of Meta's CEO/COO office driving cross-company strategy. Before joining Facebook, Covey served in the Obama White House.
VatorNews: What is your investment philosophy or methodology?
Francesca de Quesada Covey: At TheVentureCity we like to say that we're the perfect balance between the head and the heart. And what we mean by that is we are very people focused, so I lead our pre-seed and seed stage investment team and, at the end of the day, what I'm investing in is people and teams. So, we’re really people focused and people oriented, because they’re going to be on a trajectory for seven to 10 years, they need to have the ambition and the grit, and sometimes the arrogance to stay being an entrepreneur.
But we are also super data focused: we were co-founded by two women, and one of them is Laura González-Estéfan, who is our co-founder and CMO. She was at Facebook since right before they did their Series C, and she was their first hire in Spain, she was their first hire outside of the United States, she was on their growth team and that’s where I know her from, from being at Facebook. She always talks about product led growth, and how what that means at its core is you look at the data of how people are engaging with your product and you make decisions based on that data. That’s the balance between the heart and the head because we think that decisions need to be based on data and we have a series of tools and products that we've created in order to really maximize on that data opportunity. That's how we think about investing, which is to find amazing people and make sure that they look at and analyze the data to make decisions.
VN: What data are you looking at in both on the people side and also from the business perspective?
FC: So, we don’t look at data from the person side. You have qualitative data, which is, how are they uniquely poised to solve this problem? What experience do they bring? Do they understand the size of the problem? Do they understand why venture capital is important to helping them solve that problem? Do they understand the ownership that they should maintain for their company? So, you run through a series of questions to understand them and who they are.
At the product level, the data that we're looking at is retention and engagement to better understand how people are using the product once the product has launched. The seed that we're looking for is: are people retained? Do they keep coming back, and are they engaged in the product? And if we have those two things, then even if they don't have a complete product market fit at that moment when I'm investing, that they have a kernel there that they can really develop.
VN: Where categories are you investing in? What types of companies and what verticals? Are you B2B or B2C?
FC: We invest in EMEA, the United States, and Latin America; we’re dual headquartered in Miami and Madrid. We invest in software companies that are mostly B2B SaaS.
VN: Why B2B SaaS as opposed to consumer? What's the opportunity there that you see?
FC: In the course of our lifetime we've invested in 108 companies. Since we were founded we've changed your investment thesis, over time we've refined it, and one of the things that we have found is that in B2B SaaS you can make very data driven decisions and you can really understand outcomes of how people are engaging with it. And so, for us, it’s exciting to really understand how companies are spending their time, and what that really key moment is for good engagement and retention.
VN: Obviously in B2B SaaS there's a wide range of companies that you can invest in. So, which verticals are you looking at and why? What's the opportunity that you see that's exciting about those verticals?
FC: We’re looking at FinTech and healthtech; we also started investing in some energy tech companies, so climate tech companies. That's been primarily our focus and we take a wide lens to those, so for us health tech also includes some food tech and also data and analytics and developer products. We have a team of operating partners that all come from high growth startups or big companies, or have been operators themselves. And so, we know that we bring a really unique experience and background from the people that we have in house that allows us to better support the companies that we invest in with unique know-how and knowledge.
VN: At Vator we've been focused on healthtech the past few years, so that's a space that we know very well. If you do B2B then I'm guessing that's companies that sell into hospitals and health systems. How have you seen that space evolve, especially since COVID? What areas are hospitals and health systems now interested in more than they were pre-pandemic?
FC: Remember how I said that there was a moment in time where we refined our thesis and we were more B2C? So, we invested in a company called Paloma Health, and when we invested in them they were B2C and they've made the transition to B2B. We have been on their journey and it was incredible to be on that journey with them and with that transition. They just raised their Series A.
There's a lot more femtech that's of interest to hospitals and health systems. So, we're seeing that there's a specialization or focus on delivering results for women. One of the things that we're seeing is that women as healthcare recipients are advocating for themselves more, and they're asking for more products and tools that treat them as women, instead of as a patient, and that really focus on specializing on the dynamics that are unique to women. And so, we've seen a lot more conversations around that. I've seen, personally, a lot more emphasis on a holistic approach even by the providers in the hospital systems to treatment; this has been happening since before the pandemic but we're really thinking about a whole body. It's physical, it's mental, its dietary, and we’re also embracing new ways of treating these, so it's not just prescription based or Western medicine, but also thinking about other services that could lead to good results.
All in all, the conversation is very focused on outcomes but they're willing to say, “the cost of healthcare is so high that we need to think about a lot of approaches to outcomes, not just outcomes focused on how we've been traditionally doing things.”
VN: Do you invest in value based care? That seems to tie into what you just talked about.
FC: Yes, we do. And also, just on the trends that you're asking about from the hospital systems and their providers, the conversations are going much faster for companies that are focused on value-based care outcomes. Even two years ago the conversations started from a very traditional, “what does the long standing medical field tell me about this?” versus, “Yes, I understand the network effects of community. Yes, I understand why treating Hashimotos with nutrition is just as important.”
VN: If you had to define the macro trend with B2B SaaS right now that you’ve betting on, not just in healthcare, how would you define that?
FC: It goes back to what we were talking about earlier about making data driven decisions for product, so the macro trend we’re looking for is not at a vertical level, necessarily, we still tend to be generalists, but is really about, is this an organization that is going to make data driven decisions and translate that into product? And so, how much customer obsession do you have? How much unique knowledge do you have? How much of an ability do you have to transfer your unique understanding into a product that is going to grow? That's most of what we're focused on and how we really think about our investment strategy.
VN: Let's talk about your fund a little bit. What's the size of the fund? How many investments do you make per year and how does that translate into dollars?
FC: We have $160 million assets under management. We have two vehicles: we have a pre-seed and seed stage vehicle, and we have a Series A vehicle. Our ticket size ranges from $100,000 to $4 million. Over the last 10 years we've invested in over 100 companies. We invest in Latin America, the US and EMEA and we've invested in 14 different countries since we started. 35% of our companies are founded or co-founded by women, which is a stat that we're proud of but has lots of space to grow, so we're not resting on our laurels; we want to make sure that we continue to increase that. And we're really proud that our portfolio companies have raised a significant amount of money after we've invested. We're proud of their ability to continue growing and for us to be a part of that growth path.
VN: That’s a pretty broad range, $100,000 to $4 million. Obviously companies that are pre-seed will be in a very different place when you’re investing than a Series A. So, a pre-seed company when you’re investing $100,000 I'm sure wouldn’t have any numbers at that point, right, but at the seed stage I'm sure they have to have some numbers and especially at Series A. So, what do you want to see from companies at those intervals?
FC: One thing that I would double click on is because we're investing in Europe, Latin America, and the US, that's why we have a broad range, because $100,000 in Europe is different from $100,000 in Latin America, which is different from 100,000 in the United States. That's why our range is so big, because it's targeted towards geographic area. And so, we always look at our portfolio and we try to ensure that we're being really thoughtful and we have the mandate to do that. So, we want to have a really good mix which allows us to edge out different opportunities, and to really think about extending our money as much as possible. Also, under TheVentureCity, we are two different teams: we have a Series A team and a vehicle there, and a pre-seed and seed vehicle, which allows us to really have that depth of expertise for those different areas.
At the pre-seed level, you're right, you have an idea. And so, what we're looking for there is we want to be among the first institutional checks along with friends and family. We want to make sure that you, as a founder, have a unique understanding of the problem, that you are gritty, you are focused, that you understand what you're going after, why you're going after it, and that you have an idea of what you're doing. For seed and Series A we get much more focused: for seed, where we're writing checks of $150,000 to $250,000, with the opportunity to do fast follow on, we want at least three months of data of the product that you have built. That product can be in beta, it doesn't have to be a fully launched product, but we want to be able to see at least three months of data to understand what's going on a little bit under the hood. And at Series A, where we are investing a minimum of $1 million, up to $4 million, we want to see that you have a market fit, we want to see much more than three months of data, and we want to show that you do have product market fit and that we can help you scale that.
VN: Do you need to see any specific numbers, like number of customers or ARR? Any minimums that you need to see from those companies at that point?
FC: Through our product, which is called growthscanner.com, we launched our own proprietary data platform. We don't invest based on ARR, we don't invest money based on customers, we don't have minimum requirements, but we do use industry benchmarks to understand retention and engagement. And so, what we're looking for is really strong retention and engagement because we believe that if you have really strong retention and engagement, ARR and the number of customers is a quick follow. Those are the metrics that we're looking at. We're not an ARR-base firm and we're a minimum number of customers based firm.
VN: It definitely sounds like you will not invest pre-product but that they have to have a prototype or something like that
FC: Pre-seed we will invest pre-product, but we’re doing less than less of that because we have that three month data requirement and that’s really important for us. It just helps us make better informed decisions and we also want founders that are obsessed with data. We're going to be obsessed with data and so one of the things that we tell all founders that are interested in receiving our money is, “do your due diligence on investors and be very clear about what your expectations are. Ask investors to be very clear about what their expectations are.” The Growth Scanner is a way to understand how people are interacting with your product but it's also a “show me, don’t tell me” way of proving that we're data obsessed, because we are going to ask for this information. It's all your information, we will tell you how we read it, but we want to make sure that we really understand that in asking people for that level of detail that we’re clear on what our expectations are and where our area of focus is going to be.
VN: In your first answer you talked about the head and the heart and the fact that you invest in people. So, what do you actually want to see from those founders? When that entrepreneur comes and sits across from you, what are you looking for in that person to invest in them?
FC: “Why are you building this?” is the first question that I have. Being an entrepreneur is hard: it's lonely, it's not the most lucrative path available to you. So, why are you building this? And what I want to hear at that moment is not, “I’m building this because there is a $5 billion dollar TAM,” but, “I'm building this because I have uniquely felt this issue and because I am uniquely positioned, based on that knowledge, to solve it. And I know that this is an issue because I've spoken to other people who also feel this acute pain point and I want to make sure that I solve it for them.” When an entrepreneur starts talking about, “I'm solving this for 8 billion people, and this is going to be a $7 trillion market,” that already is a red flag that it's probably not the right fit because they’re overselling just a little bit.
Do you hear a lot of that? Do people say, “this problem is going to solve everything”?
VN: Not really, honestly. We do a lot of healthcare and I feel people are very focused in terms of healthcare. They want to address a specific disease or specific ailment, or a very specific problem that a hospital has. I don't really hear, “we're going to fix the healthcare system,” because that would be ridiculous. Obviously you're not going to do that, so I don't think anybody would say that.
FC: It's funny, we just finished day three of our summit and we were asking, “what is the advice that you would give?” and it was, “Just be honest about your TAM and manage expectations, because if you start talking about 'two-thirds of the world's population,' it's just too hard to think about it." So, it's funny to use the term ridiculous, because sometimes you're like, “nope, I'm also a person in the world. I also know how things work.”
VN: We talked about the product and people, so I guess the third really most important thing probably for investing is the market. How do you make sure that there is an actual market for this product that they're trying to sell you? That there is actually a significant number of people who can benefit from this?
FC: The first question that we ask ourselves is, "would we use this product?" That's really important as an investor to start there. And then, if we're not experts in that area, we talk to experts in that area. “Is this a healthcare product that is really a pain point? And what is the market that is there?” We can you also do research ourselves; we have a great team of analysts that help us do research to really understand how many people suffer from this condition, how many people get diagnosed, what are the tools that are currently out there, why they are uniquely positioned to do it. And then you do due diligence by talking to other investors. I want to talk to the investors that invested in the company, and the investors that they didn't invest in the company. I want to talk to investors that are in my network, I want to share the deal and say, “I'm thinking about doing this, would you do it?” At the end of the day, business moves at the speed of trust and it's about creating that network of people that are going to help you make the most informed decisions because the only thing that you can plan for is that things are going to change, so you have to make the best decision with the most data that you have at that moment. And then you have to be ready for the needed pivots, because we're all going to have to pivot.
VN: What do you see now in terms of valuations, especially in healthcare because healthcare we saw just explode in 2020 and 2021. It came down quite a bit this past year, almost 50%, and it was still the second biggest year ever, so that's how big 2021 was. And obviously valuations have come down as well, which that's true across the board in other verticals, not just in healthcare. So, where do you see valuations now versus when you were a couple of years ago? Do you see companies taking down rounds as a result? Where do you see it going in the next year or so?
FC: On a whole, we're seeing about a 30% decrease in valuations since the pandemic. We are seeing founders be much more realistic about what their companies are worth, especially at the pre-seed round, where you have more flexibility. Obviously in Series A you don't have as much flexibility; you brought up the topic of down rounds and, yes, we are seeing and hearing about companies that are doing down rounds but we have always tried to invest in companies that are a little more conservative and one of the incredible opportunities that we have as an investor is that we can hedge market differences by investing in multiple jurisdictions. And so, founders in Latin America and Europe have always been a little bit more austere than they are in the United States, which has allowed us to not see as much as we are seeing in other places.
What I'm seeing is a much bigger focus on getting to revenue. Before, what we would see was growth at all costs and now we're just seeing people are really, really heads down focused on revenue. If you have a path to revenue, I’m seeing valuations being maintained, and I'm not seeing the down rounds. So, it's not that investors are saying, “I need to see money in the bank, it has to be there,” but what I am seeing is they want to understand that you have a way to get there. And so, we're not seeing those huge jumps between one round and another and not as many down rounds. I saw a company recently that was a seed stage company that had previously raised their seed at over $20 million. I love the founder, I actually love the product, but I couldn't get there, it's just too expensive for me. It was a really hard conversation because I said, “your valuation is too high, and unless somehow you 10x your growth, and you 10x your revenue, there is no way that I can justify that.” So, there are people that are having hard conversations like that; hopefully they have enough runway, because I do think that the market will balance out a little bit in the next year or so.
The inverse is happening too at the pre-seed level and at the seed level. We're seeing founders raise at such low valuations that they're not maintaining control of their cap table and they're not maintaining control of their company. I've had to say no to investing in founders because they don't have enough ownership at the seed stage because they're too cheap. That's the other side of this coin, where I have to tell founders, “you need to know your worth because if you're too inexpensive and sold too much of your company that doesn't make people think you're going to stick around the 10 years that you need you to. That's not an interesting proposition for me, because you are not knowing your worth.” But we're getting to this point where we're balancing.
VN: That’s really interesting actually, because I've asked this question to a bunch of VCs and nobody's mentioned companies not getting valuations high enough at the early early stages. What happens if a company gives up too much control?
FC: What happens is the CEO leaves, or they want to sell and they want to go to M&A, and so you're not maximizing the full potential of the company. Instead, you're selling pretty early, or you're losing the CEO that's really the heart of the spirit of the organization, because the CEO says, “I've been grinding it out for five years, I've been doing okay but working my butt off, and I own 10% of the company. I at least have another five years of raising money. And so, if I do the math, I’m going to end up at 2%. Can I 100% guarantee that I'm going to be worth $3 billion in order to get the payoff that I want?” So, then the CEO likely says, “I'm going to sell for $20 million because I want to go do something else or I'm just going to leave.” For me, that just doesn't work.
VN: Seems like there has to be a balance between not a valuation that’s so high you can’t grow into, but not too low where you lose control. So, there has to be that middle ground between those two extremes.
FC: 100%. I think three or four times I’ve said that you have to put the data behind it. So, here is the data point that I would use: in an ideal world, once you close your seed round, the founder still owns 70% of the company, and that can include an ESOP, so it could be 65%, but you still control at least 70%. That's in an ideal world, not everyone's gonna get there, obviously you play with the numbers, but that is the target that we’re looking at.
VN: Let's talk about your differentiation as a firm. And we'll start with your investors. When you go and you pitch to LPs, how do you say that you're the firm that should deploy their money? What's unique about you and special about you where they should trust you with their funds?
FC: We invest in three different geographies, we have an excellent team that come from some of the strongest companies in the space, and we use the data to derisk investments.
VN: That data that seems to really be your differentiation to other firms. Are other firms not quite as data driven as you? Data seems to be very important in the venture industry, but it seems like what you're saying is that they're really not.
FC: No, I'm not calling out other firms and I don't think it's about comparing and contrasting us versus other firms. There are other firms that do that too. We do it by looking at events level data of a company and really focusing on retention and engagement. We bring the expertise to do that from having done that before at large companies and our own companies. We have a team of six data scientists that helps to analyze the data and review it and then helps companies think about their data. That is a big part of how we make investment decisions. And so it's not about other firms not doing that, but it is about us doing it. Other firms can do it however they want, but that's how we do it.
VN: What's your differentiation to founders? There are so many firms out there and, honestly, the best companies have their choice, they can pick and choose who they want to partner with and who to take money from. So, what's your pitch to the entrepreneurs who sit across from you?
FC: We believe that we're in a constantly changing world, and that you need to really think about how you evolve with markets. So, we're agile by nature, and we bring that from when we were at high growth companies. We have a lot of expertise, we were either founders or operators before, we are very action oriented, and so our actions speak for ourselves, which is why we've made the investment in a team of six data scientists to help you with data and why we're really caught up on data propositions at the beginning. Before we invest in you, we analyze, through our Growth Scanner, your event level data. We give you a full report that is yours; after we give you the report, you do what you want with your data. It's a one time report based on the data that you're sending us so we’re showing you from the beginning the value we're going to deliver and detail out information even to the cohort level so that you can really see what's working and what's not working. It’s not that once we invest in you and we own a piece of your company that we're willing to do this, this is to get into our investment process, so we're really focused on making sure that our actions are speaking loudly.
We’re very, very honest and clear. So, we set expectations from the beginning, and our data is one of the ways that we do that, so we're clear with expectations. I'm sure you're going hear this from everyone, but we're really passionate about what we do. This is a really unique team that could be working at any large tech company, or could be building companies, but we all choose to be here so we bring a passion or a level of detail oriented orientation that makes us really, really, really unique. And the fact that we can look at investments across different geographies, and most of our roles at large tech companies were focused on internationalization and globalization, so we can be a thought partner as you're thinking about scaling across borders.
VN: Do you give that report to every company you meet?
FC: Every company that we're considering for investment, not every company that we meet. There are some companies where they focused on, like, building the next electric vehicle; that's hardware and that’s not where we invest. So, we're clear about what our investment parameters are. But we do it for every company we’re considering. There are some questions that we just want to run through that are hard lines for us: at the pre-seed and seed stage, if you’ve been operational for more than three years, and you don't have a product in the market, you're not for us. If you don't have a full dedicated tech team, if you only have a part time tech team, you're not for us. We're not asking you to have 15 people, but we want full time people. So, there are parameters there. We don't invest in Asia, so if you're in AIPAC we're not going to invest in you. We try to be clear about what our expectations are and do our due diligence before we do the Growth Scanner, because what we wouldn't want to happen is this amazing company from Asia comes in and gives us a Growth Scanner and we're like, “just kidding. You spent all this time with us, we spent all this time with you, but we don't invest in Singapore.”
VN: Talk about some of your companies, some of your investments, maybe two or three of them that you've made. What was it about those companies, what was special about them, that made you want to invest in them?
FC: I want to start by talking about Talli. Lauren Longo is the founder of Talli, a platform that allows caregivers to better manage data and have better outcomes for the people for whom they are providing care. They started in the baby industry, and they're now moving into the elder care industry. We invested and then followed on, so we have high conviction in this founder; she has a very, very, very personal understanding of why she's building this product. She understands her customer and listens to her customer and is very clear about making sure that she is building her product for her customer and she is very oriented around scale. And so, she has a very clear path to get there and she hits those metrics. It is a pleasure to work with Lauren and I love her product and I give it out at every single baby shower, and I am delighted that I'm going to be giving it out to more people too.
There are two more companies that I want to mention: Paloma Health, which is in the hyperthyroidism space, so it helps mostly women, 80% of people that have hyperthyroidism are women, and helps them connect with endocrinologists. There is more demand than there is supply of endocrinologists and so it's telehealth and community based health for people that suffer from it. They also do at home testing. I suffer from hypothyroidism and so I'm a product user and I really loved the ease of scheduling with a doctor. I appreciate not having to go to Quest Labs. They also do something which I really liked, which I've never had from my endocrinologist, which is the doctors, who are all Paloma Health doctors, they ask you what your goals are. I found that so unique because most of the time you go see an endocrinologist and they say, “your labs say this, here’s a pill.” That idea of centering around the patient and saying, “what is your goal as a patient? Is your goal to lose weight or is your goal to stop being so hot? Is it to treat symptoms? Or are you trying to get off this medicine?” It's very close on goals.
The third company that we’ve invested in is Tucuvi, a health tech company based out of Spain. They are creating an AI platform to automate medical phone conversations. Their AI is called Lola, which helps people in Spain and Portugal have really good care in an empathetic way. Now they want to extend into the US.
What's interesting about these three companies, which I did not realize, is all of them have either have a female founder or a female co-founder. Again, we’re not focused on investing in female entrepreneurs, but we want to make sure that we are investing in entrepreneurs, regardless of who they are.
VN: Let’s talk about you and your career. You came from being in Facebook, so obviously you made a career change to be in venture capital. Why did you decide that that was the right move for you? Why did you want to go from being in the corporate world to being in VC?
FC: Because the best way to ensure that you see the world that you want to see is to be closest to capital and to use capital in order to support entrepreneurs that are building the world that you want to see. I want to see a more equitable, outcomes oriented, data driven world and I wanted to get as close as possible to the decision makers that make that possible.
VN: VC is definitely a very white, very male centric industry still; it’s changing but the number of minority and women VCs is still distressingly low. So, that's how you get the money to the people that you want to get it to.
FC: Exactly. So, I say to people, “maintain control of your company. Check out who your investors are, be clear about what you're doing.” Part of my responsibility is not just to deploy capital, but it's also to be a steward for the world I want to see and to help entrepreneurs think about it in different ways, instead of just being focused on returns. We have a fiduciary responsibility to be focused on returns, that goes without saying, but it's also about focus on return in a way that is filled with integrity. I'm very, very proud of the way that we do that.
VN: I have found that healthcare investors have that sensibility, more than other investors. When you invest in healthcare, there seems to be more of a mission that they have to actually change the world and help people that doesn't necessarily exist in other areas of investing.
FC: Healthcare is about wellness and if you're in this space, then there's a part of you that cares deeply about other people. That isn't to put down people that are in other verticals, but in order to be in this space you have to care about the wellness of other people. In order to be a climate tech investor, you have to care about the wellbeing of our planet, that has to motivate you, because every day you're going to be just talking to people that are talking about the planet. If you are going to be an aerospace investor, you have to think of rockets as the coolest thing because you're going to spend your whole day talking about rockets. And if you're a healthcare investor, you're going to spend the whole day talking about people's wellness and so you have to care about people.
VN: What are some of the lessons that you've learned since transitioning from Facebook to TheVentureCity? What are some of the things that you've learned about venture? What advice would you give somebody else who's going make that change?
FC: That not all venture capitalists are created the same. That your responsibility is to your LPs and to the company that you invest in. You are part of their cap table now and you have a responsibility. If something is going off track, you need to have the ability to influence people but you cannot make the decisions for people. That it is a networking business so you need to make sure that you know who the other players are in the space and that you're talking and networking with them. And to not take yourself seriously; venture capitalists take themselves so seriously.
VC: What's the part of the job that you really love the most? When you go to work every day really motivates you?
FC: Helping people build their dreams. Entrepreneurs are just building their dreams and being a tiny, tiny piece of them getting to the next level is really exciting. I really like problem solving; I was just being a founder and he was like, “we need to raise money.” He was having a classic conundrum: we invested in them in their pre-seed round, then he raised at a really high valuation in the seed round because he raised a lot of money during the pandemic, and he was like, “we need to raise more money, but what are the metrics that I need to show an investor?” He's in the middle of a pivot, going from B2C to B2B, he's in the FinTech space. And so, how do we tell that story? What are the metrics that he should prove out in the next six months? Where does he focus? Where does he focus his team? That problem solving is so fun.
VN: Is there anything else that I should know about you? Affirm in your views on investing anything else you want people to know about you?
FC: I'm a wife and a mother of two beautiful kids. I invest in what I'm passionate about and I test our products and I want to make sure that I’m investing in people and let people decide that they want me to invest in them because they know who I am and what I can bring and that they see there’s more than just a check behind that. If people are going to be personal with you, you have to be personal with them.
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